Quick search mode: improvements

We welcome any suggestions for new features or improvements in Altap Salamander. Please post one suggestion per report.
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Stefan
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Post by Stefan »

SvA wrote:
jis wrote:
AbteriX wrote:And it didn't works with '/'
Strange, it actually works on US or Czech keyboard.
It works on a German keyboard too, you have to swich off Options > Configuration > Panels > Use shift+number for go to Hot Path option, though ( '/' is Shift+7 on a German keyboard).
Confirmed, thanks for this hint Stefan.
But Shift+/   is even less manageable then AltGr+\ for handicappted people.
With US keyboard layout the / + the \ key are easy to reach.
For german kb layout the <> -key on the left down side is better to press.
REQUEST: maybe we can have this key for this function too. What do you think?

Tip to Tomcat: i feel the arrow keys blind, with there special layout the are easy to feel by fumbling :lol:

BTW: english isn't my native tongue. Betterments are welcome :oops:
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Jan Rysavy
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Post by Jan Rysavy »

Stefan wrote:With US keyboard layout the / + the \ key are easy to reach.
For german kb layout the <> -key on the left down side is better to press.
REQUEST: maybe we can have this key for this function too. What do you think?
I will look at this! The '<' and '>' are not valid characters for file names, so they are good candidates.
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Post by Jan Rysavy »

OK, it looks like very good idea, the '<' key on German layout is the '\' key on English layout. Implemented. Stefan, thank you!

Question for German users: do you switch between German/English keyboard layout often (I mean Alt+Shift Windows shortcut)? We switch between Czech/English layout quite often (English layout for programming, Czech layout for some emails and Czech documents). Unfortunately there is not something like '<' (one stroke, invalid character for file names) available on Czech layout :(
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AbteriX
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Post by AbteriX »

Jan Rysavy wrote:OK, it looks like very good idea, the '<' key on German layout is the '\' key on English layout. Implemented. Stefan, thank you!

Question for German users: do you switch between German/English keyboard layout often (I mean Alt+Shift Windows shortcut)? We switch between Czech/English layout quite often (English layout for programming, Czech layout for some emails and Czech documents). Unfortunately there is not something like '<' (one stroke, invalid character for file names) available on Czech layout :(
I never switch this layout, but smt i came along PCs switched to english layout.
If i switch to EN(USA) the '/' and '\' keys are in the lower right side like here:
US/Czech
Image

the '<' key on German layout is the '\' key on English layout.
? :roll: ?
the '>' and '<' are in the lower left with german layout,
and the '\' key on English layout is on the right on german keyboards:
German
Image


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks to Cherry International Keyboards for the pics!
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Post by Jan Rysavy »

AbteriX wrote:
the '<' key on German layout is the '\' key on English layout.
? :roll: ?
the '>' and '<' are in the lower left with german layout,
and the '\' key on English layout is on the right on german keyboards:
I have old German keyboard (HP Vectra) from my friend for testing purposes such is this case. When I switch to "EN" layout (using Alt+Shift) and press the '<' key (lower left on your "German" picture), the '\' appears on the screen. In the "CS" layout it produces also '\'. In the "DE" this key produces '<'.
AbteriX wrote:If i switch to EN(USA) the '/' and '\' keys are in the lower right side like here:
Same here. And in addition the '<' works like '\'.

What does this key in "EN" layout on your computer?
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AbteriX
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Post by AbteriX »

Jan Rysavy wrote: Same here. And in addition the '<' works like '\'.
What does this key in "EN" layout on your computer?
DE <
EN \

DE SHIFT >
EN SHIFT |

DE AltGR |
EN AltGR nothing

oops :D sorry you'r right :oops: The '\' is in EN layout on an german KB at the lower left [<]-key too!
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Post by Jan Rysavy »

AbteriX wrote:oops :D sorry you'r right :oops: The '\' is in EN layout on an german KB at the lower left [<]-key too!
So this problem looks to be solved for German users. From next version of Servant Salamander the '<' key could be used as "wild" character (besides old '\' and '/'), regardless of current keyboard layout (German/English). I hope this key is available on majority of German keyboards...
Last edited by Jan Rysavy on 11 Aug 2006, 22:53, edited 1 time in total.
Tomcat
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Post by Tomcat »

Yeehah, great news. :D This will certainly push this wildcard feature on German keyboards.

Jan, one point. In your last post you say that ">" (greater than) will be available as a wildcard but this requires to press SHIFT.
Your earlier posts mention "<" (less than) as the wildcard key. I would prefer "<" as this does not require SHIFT.

Jan, have you guys made up your mind about "Quick Search should do something useful if there is no match for the last keystroke" ? Is this something that you consider for 3.0 or do you think that it will confuse users?

BTW, I never switch to EN layout.
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Post by Jan Rysavy »

Tomcat wrote:Jan, one point. In your last post you say that ">" (greater than) will be available as a wildcard but this requires to press SHIFT.
Your earlier posts mention "<" (less than) as the wildcard key. I would prefer "<" as this does not require SHIFT.
Fixed, thank you.

Regarding your suggestion: from our standpoint we like the current behaviour ( http://forum.altap.cz/viewtopic.php?p=5663#5663 ).
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Post by Tomcat »

One final attempt to make sure that we talk about the same thing (then I will leave this topic alone)

I think of a situation like this (file list):
AAA
ABC
ARA
ARE
BBB
DEE
EEE


Current behavior is as follows: Pressing A will select AAA, pressing R will select ARA, pressing D will do nothing (as no file starts with ARD).

Instead of doing nothing Sala could jump to DEE (no match for D with the current behavior so the next file starting with D is chosen).

I know that the same can be achieved with ESC, D but I see the following advantages:
- Will behave as WinEx, if no file starts with a double letter (more a marketing argument, but nevertheless valid I think)
- Will in some situations be faster than current behavior (same letter twice is pressed faster than letter + DOWN)
- Saves pressing ESC if the user changes his mind what file/folder to select
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Post by Jan Rysavy »

The behaviour of Windows Explorer quick search is based on completely different basis. It distinguishes between fast and slow strokes: fast strokes belongs to one item, whilst slow strokes means "go to the next item". We can hardly claim we are "compatible" with their quick search, even with your idea implemented.

To realize differences, try this:
(Windows Explorer, names from your sample, sorted by name)

1. focus AAA
2. hit A
-> ABC will be focused (in this case SS quick search keeps AAA focused)

1. focus AAA
2. hit AB
-> ABC will be focused

1. focus AAA
2. hit A (wait a second) and hit B
-> BBB will be focused

Beyond that we really like the way how the Quick Search works. I can imagine some improvements here:
1. notify (flash or sound effect?) that name doesn't match (the case you are talking about)
2. highlight all names in panel that matches the current quick search pattern (candidates for up/down)
3. somehow present entered wildcard characters (now they are invisible -> not good practice from GUI standpoint)
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zarevak
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Post by zarevak »

I just made an picture of an idea, how to present quicksearch to the user (using same set of directories as in my previous post about [Backspace] key)
The search term is: \vis\stu
Image
-> entries, that don't match the quicksearch are dimmed
-> parts of names, that are matched by wildcards are blue
-> matched parts are orange
-> rest of all the matched entries are black as before

Remarks:
- the color scheme is just a sample
- the idea doesn't solve wildcard matched as an empty string or at the beginning of the file (Visual Math Studio)
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Post by Jan Rysavy »

YES, this is exactly what I meant. Thank you for this study!
Such highliting should be optional (we have a lot of conservative users).

If there will be demand for it, we can support (optional) also Windows Explorer quick search mode besides the current one. I mean complete implementation. What about Windows Vista, some changes regarding quick search?

Another idea how to improve the existing quick search mode:
1. option to reduce displayed items on-the-fly (only matching items are visible)
2. OR: introduce a new command to Edit > Advanced > Hide Nonmatching Names. Enabled only during quick search mode, some handy hot key assigned, also assign hot key to existing Show Hidden Names (perhaps Show All Names would be better name for this command?).
Tomcat
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Post by Tomcat »

Jan Rysavy wrote:The behaviour of Windows Explorer quick search is based on completely different basis. It distinguishes between fast and slow strokes: fast strokes belongs to one item, whilst slow strokes means "go to the next item".
Ohh, should have tested more :oops:.
I withdraw that argument. Under these circumstances I prefer if SS is not behaving like WinEx (how fast is fast, how slow is slow?)
zarevak wrote:I just made an picture of an idea, how to present quicksearch to the user (using same set of directories as in my previous post about [Backspace] key)
The search term is: \vis\stu
Image
I REALLY like that. I vote for this feature.


Another idea. I would also like to refer to the already discussed BACKSPACE behavior (see thread mentioned by zarevak) and request that
  • Quick Search should not only auto-activate but also auto-deactivate when reaching the position left of the first character with LEFT or BACKSPACE
I think that this is more intuitive (I once spent more time than I wanted to figure out how to leave the quick search mode). And it presents quick search more like a (very nice) search feature instead of a special mode to the user.

I cannot imagine a situation where this auto-exit would interfere with the current functionality, but maybe someone of you sees a disadvantage.
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Post by zarevak »

Just remark: the caret (cursor) position can stay at the beginning (on the left before the first character) no matter how many wildcard characters ( \ / < ) user entered; you should distinguish this states:
- quicksearch term: "" (empty = matches everything)
- quicksearch term: "\" (one wildcard character = matches everything)
- quicksearch term: "\\" (two or more wildcard characters = matches everything, but doesn't make any sense to use)
-> if the quicksearch is really empty, the quicksearch mode can be ended, like Tomcat said;
-> when there is one (or more :? ) wildcard character, the cursor can stay at the beginning showing the user, that quicksearch is active
:arrow: this would also solve the problem, how to show the user that the wildcard character at the beginning is matched as an empty string (problem from my previous remark)

The second part of my previous remark is, that this UI idea doesn't solve the Mi\cr\os\oft problem (all the wildcards are matched as empty strings and the user doesn't get any clue about it from the UI)

Also I'm proposing to disable the ability to enter more than one wildcard character, because the result is always the same ( \\vis\\\\stu = \vis\stu )

BTW: Beware, that LEFT key is different than BACKSPACE key.
Using my previous set of directories, if you enter: \vis then you can:
- pres BACKSPACE 4 times to get empty quicksearch
- BUT result of pressing LEFT key 4 times depends on what directory you have focused:
-- on one of the Microsoft Visual Studio directories your quicksearch term is changed to: Microsoft 8)
-- but on VisualRoute or Visual Math Studio your quicksearch is now also empty!! :-P
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