they're only humans!!
Do i care whether you like cliche or not? I wasn't even targeting on you in the first place or commenting on your ideas how to improve things. My message was for those who are always negative to the Altap developers. Instead of complainng they can suggest ways to improve things. Also by saying there are always negative comments from users was to encourage the developers to continue their good work. Looks you didn't get it. Some people are so sensitive.
I'm more of a hardware guy than programmer, though I do maintan a small SF project as sideline.
My experience on the hardware side, for what it's worth, is that most dissatisfied clients and botched-up jobs are a direct result of trying to beat ridiculous deadlines set by management. Typical examples are fileservers rushed onto site without any soaktest, before any useraccount-info has been supplied by the client, before the domain is registered, and so on. Result is that instead of a few days being spent finishing the job properly in the workshop, months are spent onsite trying to put the unfinished mess into some sort of useable order.
What is worse is that the mad-panic deadline-beating effort almost invariably results from the management starting the job behind schedule -even though they had months of warning. This is for some strange reason regarded as OK, whereas if you or I turn-up five minutes late for work...
The professional coder most likely suffers much the same situation.
I try to imagine what a Mozart concert organised by such managers would sound like. It would probably start a couple of hours after doors opened, last only five minutes, and sound more like Metallica.
My experience on the hardware side, for what it's worth, is that most dissatisfied clients and botched-up jobs are a direct result of trying to beat ridiculous deadlines set by management. Typical examples are fileservers rushed onto site without any soaktest, before any useraccount-info has been supplied by the client, before the domain is registered, and so on. Result is that instead of a few days being spent finishing the job properly in the workshop, months are spent onsite trying to put the unfinished mess into some sort of useable order.
What is worse is that the mad-panic deadline-beating effort almost invariably results from the management starting the job behind schedule -even though they had months of warning. This is for some strange reason regarded as OK, whereas if you or I turn-up five minutes late for work...
The professional coder most likely suffers much the same situation.
I try to imagine what a Mozart concert organised by such managers would sound like. It would probably start a couple of hours after doors opened, last only five minutes, and sound more like Metallica.
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xm1
2 Omega:
I try to explain my point better.
I deduced that there is a problem from:
1)
Being 'sensitive'
it is not a big problem for me to see that even the Altap staff members often express themselves as there IS a problem with not keeping release dates & roadmap. For proofs one can search through the whole forum.
2) Amateurs vs. Professionals
There is a big difference being a Pro or an Amateur (in the sport sense, like the jockey-terminology). Being an amateur (here I want to make it clear, that amateur here != lame) one can code only for fun & respect and if somebody tries to criticise or to nag you in some way, you can easily shut him up or say 'I am not intersted in...'. Being a Pro changes it all, now you have decided to go to the real world, where a possible customer is not always intelligent, apprehensive and reasonable and even worse - now you cannot (should not) use these shut ups, 'not interested', 'be patient' etc. unless your product is aimed at a very specific group (only intelligent, apprehensive and reasonable ones). More more worse, even these non-patient and nagging ones can be positioned somewhere at the 'high-infuence-level' or they can spread bad anti-Salamander feeling among others. Now I have to say that the Altap staff members are trying be Professionals beyond question - they have this great forum, they care about solving users problems and questions, they care for sure about the Salamander brand and 'sound' and they are trying to making the Salamander the most powerful but still not overbloated sw.
I think that the Altap Co. has one big advantage here, they have not been an multilayered oversized company yet, they are not suffering from typical more political than reasonable dictums of a coding unexperienced manager, so the Altap coders do not need to be in such absurd deadline stress or similar. Only if they conform a little bit different.
In this situation the advice like "there are always people around who keeps complaining" (== do nothing) really matters.
I try to explain my point better.
I deduced that there is a problem from:
1)
Being 'sensitive'
it is not a big problem for me to see that even the Altap staff members often express themselves as there IS a problem with not keeping release dates & roadmap. For proofs one can search through the whole forum.2) Amateurs vs. Professionals
There is a big difference being a Pro or an Amateur (in the sport sense, like the jockey-terminology). Being an amateur (here I want to make it clear, that amateur here != lame) one can code only for fun & respect and if somebody tries to criticise or to nag you in some way, you can easily shut him up or say 'I am not intersted in...'. Being a Pro changes it all, now you have decided to go to the real world, where a possible customer is not always intelligent, apprehensive and reasonable and even worse - now you cannot (should not) use these shut ups, 'not interested', 'be patient' etc. unless your product is aimed at a very specific group (only intelligent, apprehensive and reasonable ones). More more worse, even these non-patient and nagging ones can be positioned somewhere at the 'high-infuence-level' or they can spread bad anti-Salamander feeling among others. Now I have to say that the Altap staff members are trying be Professionals beyond question - they have this great forum, they care about solving users problems and questions, they care for sure about the Salamander brand and 'sound' and they are trying to making the Salamander the most powerful but still not overbloated sw.
I think that the Altap Co. has one big advantage here, they have not been an multilayered oversized company yet, they are not suffering from typical more political than reasonable dictums of a coding unexperienced manager, so the Altap coders do not need to be in such absurd deadline stress or similar. Only if they conform a little bit different.
In this situation the advice like "there are always people around who keeps complaining" (== do nothing) really matters.
In this situation the advice like "there are always people around who keeps complaining" (== do nothing) really matters.
I guess you are not that intelligent afterall. Since when did i give Altap any advice what to do or what not to do? Even if Altap choose to follow your advice, can you say there will be no more complaints? Exactly, perhaps there will be less annoyed (potential) customers but don't try to mix your own assumption with my message.
"there are always people around who keeps complaining" != do nothing got it?
When David try to give some "advice" Jan did tell him "David, should we also close this forum and stop to communicate with our customers?" Many of us are not pleased with they way David put it. We should be greatful that Altap is constantly giving good support.
It's dissapointing that a fellow developer is so stubborn and failed to understand some simple message.
I guess you are not that intelligent afterall. Since when did i give Altap any advice what to do or what not to do? Even if Altap choose to follow your advice, can you say there will be no more complaints? Exactly, perhaps there will be less annoyed (potential) customers but don't try to mix your own assumption with my message.
"there are always people around who keeps complaining" != do nothing got it?
When David try to give some "advice" Jan did tell him "David, should we also close this forum and stop to communicate with our customers?" Many of us are not pleased with they way David put it. We should be greatful that Altap is constantly giving good support.
It's dissapointing that a fellow developer is so stubborn and failed to understand some simple message.
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xm1
Nice, thanks to you now I can put together my own profile: sensitive, not intelligent, stubborn. I am just currious what comes next.
To be fair I went back and re-read your 1st entry in this discussion. And I still cannot find out nothing more than a slightly fatalistic advice to do nothing because of it does not matter what Altap do when "there are always people around who keeps complaining".
I have not patented any foolproof solutions what to do, I just gave a little advice (with 'take it or leave it' in my mind).
Anyway a good gas, can we keep more to the point?
To be fair I went back and re-read your 1st entry in this discussion. And I still cannot find out nothing more than a slightly fatalistic advice to do nothing because of it does not matter what Altap do when "there are always people around who keeps complaining".
I have not patented any foolproof solutions what to do, I just gave a little advice (with 'take it or leave it' in my mind).
Anyway a good gas, can we keep more to the point?
Again i didn't say not to follow your advice or don't try to do anything to change things like they are now. It's a just a simple conclusion that you cannot satifsy all users/customers. If users/customers also get that point they might as well try to improve the product with suggestions instead of blaming developers all the time. It's also a take it or leave it message from my part. 
But don't try to accuse me of telling Altap not to do anything.
But don't try to accuse me of telling Altap not to do anything.Hey, hey, do we have a little flame war going here?
Anyhow, here my "advice" (maybe worth less than 2 cents):
1) Provide a RoadMap
2) If you provide dates, then deliver on that date (a due date long gone is far worse than no due date)
3) Keep the level of quality but do it in half the time
Ok, forget 3)
Just waiting desperately for tabbed browing in ALTAP quality 
Anyhow, here my "advice" (maybe worth less than 2 cents):
1) Provide a RoadMap
2) If you provide dates, then deliver on that date (a due date long gone is far worse than no due date)
3) Keep the level of quality but do it in half the time
Ok, forget 3)
Just waiting desperately for tabbed browing in ALTAP quality -
zxspectrum
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suggestion for a poll
Guys....in this case,i suggest the roadmap to be changed in acordance with what users want most to be developed,like me for example the most important thing from the rodmap is "Tree view" and being able to make a list from "tree view",other users as i saw early on some posts want "tabbed browsing" and so on,so i suggest for altap staff to post a poll with the most important things on the road map,and prioritize the stuff from that roadmap,otherwise a lot of users will be disappointed that in the new version is not implemented what they wanted the most.Just a suggestion.
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memyselfandi
Correct me if I am wrong, but are the two statements above, from Jan Rysavy, the only two that altap produced ever since I asked for a news update on January 18th?
And still we don't know anything valuable about the continued support of AS. Well I hearby declare the product a dead cow until proven otherwise. (Let's start another flamewar)
Like I said before: The product is marvelous, not to mention the support they give, the (information) management is what stinks.
And still we don't know anything valuable about the continued support of AS. Well I hearby declare the product a dead cow until proven otherwise. (Let's start another flamewar)
Okay "Take That" is not the best music of choice, but ALTAP already lighted my fire once so "The Doors" are not an option./me sings: Re-light my fire ...
Like I said before: The product is marvelous, not to mention the support they give, the (information) management is what stinks.
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Jan Rysavy
- ALTAP Staff
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We are preparing version 2.51 from Wednesday. We want to make some changes in installer (it will look for registration keys KEYS.ZIP/KEYS25.ZIP and offer import, option to install Salamander to the same directory, option to upgrade from latest version). Website update will be part of work on 2.51 release.memyselfandi wrote:Correct me if I am wrong, but are the two statements above, from Jan Rysavy, the only two that altap produced ever since I asked for a news update on January 18th?
And still we don't know anything valuable about the continued support of AS. Well I hearby declare the product a dead cow until proven otherwise. (Let's start another flamewar)
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memyselfandi
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Jan Rysavy
- ALTAP Staff
- Posts: 5231
- Joined: 08 Dec 2005, 06:34
- Location: Novy Bor, Czech Republic
- Contact:
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someone