they're only humans!!

This is a place for users to discuss Altap Salamander. Please feel free to ask, answer questions, and express your opinion. Please do not post problems, bug reports or feature requests here.
zxspectrum
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they're only humans!!

Post by zxspectrum » 05 Feb 2008, 05:10

Guyz,it is known for a fact that a good programmer is the worst manager!!why do u think big companys have ceo's and mangers that have no ideea what is going on in the programming departments?(that is one of the reasons those programs are full of bugs).So....since Altap is not a big company yet,and the few ppl that are runing the company are also the lead programmers,i think we should give them credits for what they've acomplished so far,after all ... they're only humans,there is too much to do in such a short period of time.(plus,don't forget,the december month is not for workin' but for celebrating an holidays,i mean come on.......who among us is in the mood for working in december :) )Bottom line, lets thank them for what they did so far and encourage them for the future.

knick
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Re: they're only humans!!

Post by knick » 05 Feb 2008, 11:05

zxspectrum wrote:Guyz,it is known for a fact that a good programmer is the worst manager!!
I also work as a programmer and if I tell my boss I need n days for coding a special thing, than my boss can rely on this.
zxspectrum wrote:why do u think big companys have ceo's and mangers that have no ideea what is going on in the programming departments?(that is one of the reasons those programs are full of bugs).
Those programs are full of bugs (i. e.) because the timelines are given by CEOs and managers and *not* by the coders (and therefore the time is too short for proper QA).

zxspectrum wrote:credits for what they've acomplished so far,after all ... they're only humans,there is too much to do in such a short period of time.
Yes, you are right, but the "short period" was given by Altap itself.

zxspectrum wrote:Bottom line, lets thank them for what they did so far and encourage them for the future.
I guess we *ALL* thank Altap for this really great thing of software. But the thing is: Altap gave use a "release date" for the next release. Some of us use this software in our offices and have (maybe) commited to our bosses the new releases - and now?!?!?

I personally have no problem with a 2-3 month delay, but I'm very, very angry that the guys from Altap remain silent about the new release. They can see that some of us are really waiting for the new release, maybe looking daily on the Web-Site hoping for the new release and.... silence. Just silence.

I would like to see that someone of Altap just writes something like "hey guys, you are right, we are sorry about the delay but the component xxxx takes more time than we've expected" or "sorry, but we've decided to release 2.51 with a new web-site and do some more marketing (so new users see the new web-site)" or simething like this....

*EVERYTHING* would be ok - except silence.... (especially because they can see that some users are getting really nervous)...


Bye,
Michael (sorry for my bad english)

Jan Rysavy
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Re: they're only humans!!

Post by Jan Rysavy » 05 Feb 2008, 14:25

knick wrote:*EVERYTHING* would be ok - except silence.... (especially because they can see that some users are getting really nervous)...
Hi Michael, we are nearly finished with our administrative/accounting work for Salamander 2.5. From the next week we will be preparing release of Altap Salamander 2.51. We are sorry for delays and want to thank you for patience.

knick
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Re: they're only humans!!

Post by knick » 05 Feb 2008, 15:57

Jan Rysavy wrote:
knick wrote:*EVERYTHING* would be ok - except silence.... (especially because they can see that some users are getting really nervous)...
Hi Michael, we are nearly finished with our administrative/accounting work for Salamander 2.5. From the next week we will be preparing release of Altap Salamander 2.51. We are sorry for delays and want to thank you for patience.
Jan, thank you for your statement..... Seems AS 2.51 is getting closer - and I'm very happy about that!

Keep up the good work!


Bye,
Michael

xm1

Post by xm1 » 06 Feb 2008, 14:17

> ...we are nearly finished with ...
> ... From the next week we will be preparing release of Altap
> Salamander 2.51...
------------

when repeated too often, the joke fun is over quickly... ;-)

Jan Rysavy
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Post by Jan Rysavy » 06 Feb 2008, 16:15

We did underestimate the time needed for this work, we are sorry. Now we know we are finishing.

omega
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Post by omega » 06 Feb 2008, 19:05

Jan Rysavy wrote:We did underestimate the time needed for this work, we are sorry. Now we know we are finishing.
Good news Jan, hope v2.51 will be ready by the end of Feb

David

I don't believe anything you guys say

Post by David » 06 Feb 2008, 19:29

Let me give you an advice. Don't promise anything any more. Remove the roadmap from your website and tell us that you don't have any plans for Vista support or any other version of Salamander in the future. This way you can only suprise us.

I know that everybody wants to exceed expectations but you guys didn't get it. It was meant in a good way and not in a way that you promise something to be done in a month. Then you promise it to be done next week. Then you say it will be done soon and so on and on and on... Just stop it!

Read the Spolsky's blog about good programmers: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/ ... 00073.html . They are smart and GET THINGS DONE! I'm not trying to say that you guys are not smart. :-)

Jan Rysavy
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Post by Jan Rysavy » 07 Feb 2008, 10:26

David, should we also close this forum and stop to communicate with our customers?

knick
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Re: I don't believe anything you guys say

Post by knick » 07 Feb 2008, 10:43

David wrote:Let me give you an advice. Don't promise anything any more. Remove the roadmap from your website and tell us that you don't have any plans for Vista support or any other version of Salamander in the future. This way you can only suprise us.
I disagree. If there is no Roadmap, then the product quickly looks dead. Any why the hell they should not tell us that they are working on a better Vista Support?!?!?!? Vista is the OS that is shipped with nearly every new Computer and Altap should not ack that they are going to support Vista? I hope you are just kidding.....


Let's give an example:

If the guys of Altap are going to switch to a new Compiler (Visual Studio 2008) - this is really hard work that needs some time. Yes, it is of really no use for us users, but if we know this we can also "see" that it is pretty normal that there is no new version for a time.

Or the switch to Unicode. This will also take some time.


I would prefer to see a roadmap, but if Altap goes on with the bad estimation of times (sorry guys :lol: ) than remove the time lines, but don't remove the Roadmap!

IMHO, especially for a small company it is very important to show the customers that work is going on. I. e. nobody needs something like a commitment from Microsoft that work on SQL-Server is going on - everybody knows that. But a (very) small company like Altap should ALWAYS show to their clients "hey, we are alive and we are working hard on our products".

So, keep up the roadmap and show us users progress (update the roadmap).

Another way to show the clients that Development goes on is something like a Developer-Blog....


Bye,
Michael

xm1

Post by xm1 » 07 Feb 2008, 11:25

No hard feelings, please.

I am also a sw-developer and likewise I often missed the deadline before.

So nowadays I am using this way:

1) after last release, NO preliminary specific advertisment about the next one, the final features and terms at the end are often very different from the starting ones anyway (just keep up your TODO & FIXME lists as ususal + from time to time refresh these kind of lists/plans on your website, once a month is enough)

2) in the solid beta-version stage (STOP adding of any new features at this stage!) you can precise your advert, this time be more specific (freatures&term) and hype ;-)

3) when have a supposed final version (not before!), post final release date (take one extra week for last minute 'polishing')


-> result == better 'image' (always keeping promises, terms, etc...), less outside pressure (good for your nerves), more happy customers :)

omega
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Post by omega » 07 Feb 2008, 19:40

Putting up release dates while products are being delayed for months is frustating to many people. Not announcing release dates (just only the roadmap) makes people wonder if Altap is actually working on the product can cause doubts of whether the project is still alive or not. Some will even ask them for an estimation of time when the product will be released.

By updating the roadmap, or giving a short report of what Altap guys are doing is meaningless to some people. Many non IT guys don't even have a clue what a compiler is (when switching to a different one) let alone guessing that it could take a long time for the next release.

Conclusion: there are always people around who keeps complaining.

xm1

Post by xm1 » 07 Feb 2008, 21:02

> Conclusion: there are always people around who keeps complaining.
----

Sky is blue, water wet - is that it? What a great contribution...

Though your 'conclusion' is right in general, of course, there are always ways to do something better. Fool is not that one, who did a mistake. Fool is one who did not learn from it.

And even if I admire & use the Salamander, the repeatedly announced new incoming version leaves room for complaining (which is natural for some, ok).

Me - I am satisfied with the 2.5, otherwise I did not bought it, simple.

omega
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Joined: 09 Dec 2005, 19:21

Post by omega » 08 Feb 2008, 00:30

And you think your complain is unique? You are nothing more than number .... who keeps complaining about the delayed release date and that is a major contribution to the forum. Some want (better) release dates, some advise Altap not to do this. What you see as improvement might not be so to others.

Guest

Post by Guest » 08 Feb 2008, 10:28

2 omega:

I see, you did not get it, I only do not like fatalistic cliche just like yours

"What you see as improvement might not be so to others..."

or the

"...there are always people around who keeps complaining"

== the best thing you can do is nothing.

And thanks, I am aware of the fact that I am "nothing more than a number", but still - I tried to help a bit.

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