Is Salamander dead?

This is a place for users to discuss Altap Salamander. Please feel free to ask, answer questions, and express your opinion. Please do not post problems, bug reports or feature requests here.
omega
Posts: 193
Joined: 09 Dec 2005, 19:21

Re: Is Salamander dead?

Post by omega » 02 Jul 2019, 23:49

OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, after all these years patiently waiting for unicode ... oh well we are now at the mercy of the new owner. Hopefully if more people demanding for it, Fine might make our wish come true.

Jan Rysavy
ALTAP Staff
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Re: Is Salamander dead?

Post by Jan Rysavy » 03 Jul 2019, 00:36

Don't hold your breath, If you need Unicode support, UAC, or tabs, use Total Commander or another file manager.

WaldemarH
Posts: 15
Joined: 16 Nov 2014, 15:45

Re: Is Salamander dead?

Post by WaldemarH » 03 Jul 2019, 09:50

Hi Jan

For me Salamander is THE tool that I can not live without. It's the first and the last application that I run and turn off.
Now I would definitely invest some hours every month to the development of AS if it would be an open source project.

One example that I've done open source stuff is back in the Win98/2000 days, when I've bought a professional sound card and in two weeks the firm went bankrupt. So I've reverse engineered a driver and it fixed its bugs (the driver was freezing the system). Fortunately few of the originals still stayed on the forums and they saw that the updated driver was good so they've send me the original code. Unfortunately it was very fishy to say the least. So there was no other way then to make a brand new WinXP drivers. And in time I've replaced the card firmware also as it had a few bugs also. All in all at the end I've made a Win7 driver also and written a diploma out of this project.

And with this project made the card live 15 years longer then it otherwise would.
Later a friend of mine has put everything on github so everybody can see it: https://github.com/draktheas/GadgetLabs
(check ASIO and kernel drivers they are properly made.. the GUI is shit as it was written in a hurry).

Of course the times have changed since then. I'm a self employed programmer with 30+ years of coding behind my belt and I'm doing good on the money side. So maybe it's again time to invest a few hours per month into helping people around the world.

Here is also my linkedin profile if you would be interested: https://www.linkedin.com/in/waldemarh/
It's mainly the C++ part, but as I'm an electrical engineer I have a lot of other kinds of knowledge and what is most important the precision.

Anyway I'm on board if AS would go open source.

Best regards
Waldemar

Jan Rysavy
ALTAP Staff
ALTAP Staff
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Re: Is Salamander dead?

Post by Jan Rysavy » 03 Jul 2019, 21:29

Waldemar, it sounds really great, thank you for letting us know!
Is there any particular plugin you are interested in? Maybe something you are using and missing some features?

Please be warned that Salamander code base is nothing fancy - very old C++ code from pre-STL/STD era. But we imagine it should be possible to modernize it the same way Microsoft is modernizing old code in a new Windows Terminal project. Use std vector instead of our custom arrays, start using exceptions, RAII, GSL, WIL, ClangFormat, etc.

WaldemarH
Posts: 15
Joined: 16 Nov 2014, 15:45

Re: Is Salamander dead?

Post by WaldemarH » 04 Jul 2019, 09:26

Hi Jan

Old sources are not a problem for me as my speciality is renewing the old codes... more or less for all the companies I work for at the end I'm a very expensive cleaning lady. ;) .. cleaning old code and replacing it with new and shiny one.

Now the GSL/code guidelines are a good thing, WIL looks interesting, coding styles definitely (I hope you can create your own style... I'm using Microsoft driver style with 3 level commenting technique.. I'm obsessed with commented and clean code as that is the only way I can have satisfied clients.. the code that works, but if there is a bug it can be fixed very fast.. normally in a few minutes).

Maybe in time we would also add some testing functions (if it can be done). Also I assume that code is not using exceptions... I also try to avoid them as much as it can be as it/s very hard to write 100% safe code with exceptions. For me the driver technique is the right one.. every status is checked and decided upon at the place of execution. So no loose ends anywhere.

Now I'm not interested in plugins per se, but more or less pimping stuff here and there. Like:
1. lexically ordering the drop down list of previously visited folders.. or some other way... all in all pimping the list because it's chaotic and lots of times useless
2. creating more grained and better explained color settings, adding themes (by default white and dark themes)
3. maybe modifying the code so that the WinSCP can work again (missing this one deeply)
4. adding status column for OneDrive and OneDrive for business
...
All in all at start pimping the stuff here and there and then maybe in time:
5. encapsulating the working panels code into a class
6. unblocking the plugins (i.e. to not block work just because something is unzipping, renaming,..)
7. if 5. and 6. are successful creating tabs browsing (I know I know everything is cross linked in the code :) .. that is why there is 5. point)

Now if you don't want to put whole AS into open source that is not a problem, you can put it into a private repository, I can sign an NDA and we can proceed from there. To me the most important thing is that AS doesn't die as this is the most important tool I use.

Best regards
Waldemar

Jan Rysavy
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Re: Is Salamander dead?

Post by Jan Rysavy » 04 Jul 2019, 12:28

Waldemar, We don't plan to open source AS core right now, you are right. But private repository access is an option. Please give us some time (summer vacation), we will reach you on your e-mail.

WaldemarH
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Joined: 16 Nov 2014, 15:45

Re: Is Salamander dead?

Post by WaldemarH » 04 Jul 2019, 13:28

Hi Jan

Yeah it's not a problem. On my end I'm on vacations in the middle of August.

Looking forward to do some helping again.

Best regards
Waldemar

omega
Posts: 193
Joined: 09 Dec 2005, 19:21

Re: Is Salamander dead?

Post by omega » 19 Jul 2019, 23:12

I just did a google translate on a recent article

The Czech file manager for Windows, called ALTAP Salamander, has recently changed owners. if we informed Lupa, ALTAP, which was behind the administrator, took over Prague's FINE construction software company. Shortly afterwards, the new owner announced that the Salamander along with version 4.0, became freeware and available to all interested parties for free.

This step is not random and basically related to why Altap was sold. The programmers Jan Ryšavý and Petr Šolín, who kept Salamander running for many years, were behind this company. Thanks to the sale of licenses, according to Lupy, annual sales were in the order of millions of crowns, which did not represent a major livelihood.

For this reason, Ryšavý and Šolín have worked together with FINE for about ten years, for example, for modules related to PDF, printing and so on. "But my colleagues gradually started to beat work that was not directly related to Salamander's development, but the administration around. The guys are very honest and careful, so for example, they spent a lot of time with the implementation of the GDPR and there was little time for development. The software started to become obsolete and the competition is big, ”says Jiří Laurin, who is the co-owner of FINE (the second is Miloš Vodolan).

Uninteresting financially
Our company is then in a position that is common in today's IT market, and that is the lack of capable people. We saw how the development around the ALTAP went wrong and how the boys were destroyed from the administration solution, so we just suggested that we buy them, ”Laurin continues. "Basically, we bought people."

Ryšavý and Šolín are now fully engaged in FINE projects and are engaged in programming that they enjoy. "We cut them off from the world so they don't have to deal with anything else, have peace and some money," Laurin smiles.

For example, FINE might have been interested in integrating Salamander within its software, offering work with files, their transfers, and so on. However, this is a misconception and the further development of the file manager is basically stopped.

We didn't want to let the software die somewhere, so at least we released it as freeware. It is possible that some minor updates will appear over time when it's time to do so. But the implementation of larger elements, such as the much-needed Unicode, doesn't just look like that, ”says FINE clearly.

Salamander is not an interesting income for us, ”adds the company with an annual turnover of over CZK 44 million (2017).

Open to debate
After the acquisition, corporate debates also began to ask Salamander not to offer it as open source, so that the community could continue to do so. But the situation is more complicated. More programmers have contributed to the development over the years, and they also hold rights to various parts. "In general, however, we open up ideas from outside what Salamander could do next," Laurin encourages the public, saying that it is an application written in Microsoft Visual C ++.

The Czech Republic seems to lose another favorite file manager after M602. FINE sees it that further development has largely killed bureaucracy. “About 50 percent of the time was not devoted to development, but to internal things like GDPR. These things, which are originally directed against Google, Facebook, and others, ultimately hit much smaller companies, ”says Laurin.

FINE is doing differently, growing year-on-year and selling its building software as a service alongside traditional licenses. The company has over 35 associates, occasionally getting offers to buy and writing its own rendering engine. The development is still largely used by Delphi and also by C.

WaldemarH
Posts: 15
Joined: 16 Nov 2014, 15:45

Re: Is Salamander dead?

Post by WaldemarH » 22 Jul 2019, 09:50

I hope that the idea of the private git repositories and NDA would give external programmers like me a chance to pimp the program a little and maybe in time replace all the open source blocking code. And maybe then FINE would be ok to open source it... I'm not saying that it would as the code is theirs and they can do whatever they want with it, but maybe, just maybe we could do something to one day open source AS and make it live forever.

For my side I do admit that I love Salamander and think that it's one of the best out there. Unfortunately most of the people don't know what to do with powerful program like Salamander and they don't buy the licenses.

Anyway I still hope I could do something to make Salamander live longer.

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tukanos
Posts: 322
Joined: 21 Dec 2005, 19:14

Re: Is Salamander dead?

Post by tukanos » 22 Jul 2019, 20:07

WaldemarH wrote:
22 Jul 2019, 09:50
I hope that the idea of the private git repositories and NDA would give external programmers like me a chance to pimp the program a little and maybe in time replace all the open source blocking code. And maybe then FINE would be ok to open source it... I'm not saying that it would as the code is theirs and they can do whatever they want with it, but maybe, just maybe we could do something to one day open source AS and make it live forever.

For my side I do admit that I love Salamander and think that it's one of the best out there. Unfortunately most of the people don't know what to do with powerful program like Salamander and they don't buy the licenses.

Anyway I still hope I could do something to make Salamander live longer.
Yes, I have my fingres crossed. It would be great if anyone capable could give some love to AS.

WaldemarH
Posts: 15
Joined: 16 Nov 2014, 15:45

Re: Is Salamander dead?

Post by WaldemarH » 11 Sep 2019, 10:09

Hi Jan

I tried to PM you, but the forume denied it. Anyway just asking if there is any info on the NDA, so that maybe I could start pimping the Salamander a little bit?

Best regards
Waldemar

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tukanos
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Re: Is Salamander dead?

Post by tukanos » 11 Sep 2019, 11:05

Jan Rysavy wrote:
04 Jul 2019, 12:28
Waldemar, We don't plan to open source AS core right now, you are right. But private repository access is an option. Please give us some time (summer vacation), we will reach you on your e-mail.
@Waldermar it is better to quote them in the message. Jan will then see a notification at top.
Last edited by tukanos on 11 Sep 2019, 13:21, edited 1 time in total.

WaldemarH
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Re: Is Salamander dead?

Post by WaldemarH » 11 Sep 2019, 11:55

Thanks for the info. :)

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tukanos
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Re: Is Salamander dead?

Post by tukanos » 11 Sep 2019, 13:23

WaldemarH wrote:
11 Sep 2019, 11:55
Thanks for the info. :)
You are welcome. I hope you can work it out. I could do some simple PR, but I had C++ last time on University :).

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